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Post by Linda on Apr 20, 2004 22:02:12 GMT -4
I notice that jumps made of alternate sloping poles such as the St Andrew's Cross are prohibited as SJ practice fences. Can anyone tell me why? All the other prohibited fences are really dodgy (eg false ground lines). Are St Andrew's Cross fences unsafe or misleading? Are they OK to use in the actual jumping course (as distinct from the practice area)? If so, is their height measured at the lowest point (ie if used in Intro does the lowest point have to be 80cm or less, or is it the highest point)?
Personally I find them very inviting fences, so I am very interested to understand why they are prohibited.
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Post by vince roche on Apr 21, 2004 5:31:26 GMT -4
The St Andrew's Cross type fence can be used to abuse a horse in schooling, both by jumping the high bit, to deliberately knock the rail, and getting the horse excessively deep to the high bit because it may only sight a false back rail. Of course one does not deliberately knock a rail in a competition, so ii is only banned for warm up / schooling. Vince
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Post by Simone on Jul 26, 2004 19:06:04 GMT -4
Vince Are we talking about your basic cross rail here that I use to train my young horses because they are so inviting and you never get a run out on them and they build the horses confidence? Cheers Simone
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Post by Keira on Jul 26, 2004 20:21:03 GMT -4
I think it is the one where you have two or more rails at the front with say the right side higher, and one backrail with the left side higher... I could be wrong..if you were at berrima (and if im right about what they look like) they had one as jump 5 in the showjumping..
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Post by sarah on Jul 26, 2004 21:09:25 GMT -4
is that called a st andrews cross? i thought was called a spanish oxer could be wrong but hehe
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Post by Linda on Jul 26, 2004 21:52:47 GMT -4
I have now learned how they should be measured for height - not the highest or lowest point, but 1/3 of the way along from the top of the highest rail.
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Post by Simone on Jul 26, 2004 22:32:54 GMT -4
ok guys you have now confused me more im talking about 2 rails no back rail so its not any kind of spread both at the same height but each with one end on the ground that is a cross rail is the St andrews cross the same with a rail at the back to make it a spread/oxer?
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Post by Keira on Sept 13, 2004 6:23:46 GMT -4
hahah sorry yeah i think that is a spanish oxer..evil techinical names!!!
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Post by Linda on Sept 13, 2004 8:28:13 GMT -4
Annex 4 of the eventing rules lists types of jumps prohibited in the practice area. One is a jump of alternate sloping poles eg St Andrew's Cross - it even has a diagram. As far as I can see, Swedish Oxer is another name for the same thing.
A simple cross rail wouldn't be banned because the horse can see all the elements, so it can't be used to make the horse hit the rail deliberately. However, I went to a course design school with John Vallance and he said it was illegal to have any part of a pole on the ground, as with a cross rail without any spread. Not sure where that is in the rules.
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Post by Jiss on Sept 15, 2004 0:49:51 GMT -4
Simone don't panic.
That is just a normal cross rail you are talking about. They are perfectly legal.
My understanding of the St andrews cross is all poles are off the ground but two poles at the front one at the back and the two at the front are higher on one side than the other and the one rail at the back is higher on the opposite side to the front rails and is lower on the other end. I hope I did not confuse you more.
These jumps can be used in practice badly by making the horse jump the higher ends to teach the horse to pick up their legs. Only cruel people do this to their horses but their are people out there that do it so they had to make them illegal in warm up areas so peope wouldn't do it right before they went in the ring.
Hope that helped ;D
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